vote on the EU

[edward22]

what are peoples views on this .

please keep it clean . no arguments etc every one is entitled to their views etc

i for one will be voting to leave the EU

even my father who lives in france and has done for the past 15 years has said that most of the uk citizens living in france he knows will be voting to leave the EU

so whats people thoughts on this issue?

[rovermadman4825]

Am saying leave.

[Marty]

Leave

As we hardly treated equal to the rest like fuel and tobacco the same price so what's the point being in it and will save us a fortune not being in it.

EU membership costs £55 million a day so I read so hopefully will mean being rapped less for tax as not like we have that to pay if we out.

[E_T_V]

Whilst I detest all the red tape that the EU brings, it is the effect on import/export's that concerns me most. Whilst we are in the EU we have free trade with it. When we are out we don't and trade duties can (and most likely will) be imposed hampering our ability to export, and causing businesses to look at investing elsewhere where free trade would be guaranteed.
We need to be in a big free trade group as we are too small to go it alone, and the EU is probably the best of a bad bunch.

Today you'll hear a lot on the effect on science and tech as Stephen Hawking has said it would be a "disaster" for science and technology to leave. One simple basic fact is that we get more funds out of the EU that we put in for science and tech at least. The figure on the news was £2bn net flow of cash INTO the UK from the EU over a number of years. Many of the big science and technology projects were made possible by EU funding (and indeed cross border working), which is only open to EU members.

[Badboyrich]

What about the EEC though?

[E_T_V]

What about the EEC though?

Same thing. It started out as the EEC and is now the EU effectively.

Indeed at the very start it was set up by the steel and coal industries

[rovermadman4825]

Well it's not really free trade if were paying 55 million daily for the privilege. Altho that might be a drop in the ocean compare to what were making???? The EU was set up as a trade agreement and that's it, not the rest of the bull that comes with it...... It doesn't seem were allowed to run our own country......

We carnt go it alone now sadly due to all of our past governments being surrender monkeys selli g and giving everything up. But I'd like to think with the potential savings we could start investing in our country in stead of others.

I think all country's should be as self sufficient as possible and not need to relie on other countries. We could at one point but now we carnt since we sold everything......

[stefaclese]

As ETV says, lots to dislike about the EU but on balance we're better off in it (not that we're actually in it properly like most member states). My own pet hate about it is the enforced neo-liberal ideology that is imposed on member states.

I work for JLR, can't see their profits continuing to rise if they suddenly get slapped with a load of tarifs for importing expensive cars in to the EU. There is an employment freeze and cost cutting at the moment thanks to the Chinese market going under, leaving the EU WOULD result in job losses. Then there is the knock-on effects on the supply base, more job losses. Can't see Ford wanting to keep the Bridgend engine plant open either, which again would be bad for JLR as half the engines come from there. A lot of the suppliers are based in the EU too, i.e. Germany, France, eastern Europe etc, buying in all that stuff would get much more expensive.

It would be the same story across manufacturing, and financial services too (not that I give a toss about that particular leach, but its one the Tories tend to be so proud of, especially given all their interests and investments...).

Any talk of immigration is total nonsense, to be able to trade with the EU from the outside all the existing rules regarding it will still have to apply.

The £55m a day stuff is just picking numbers, its crap. The money flows both ways. The EU distributes vast amounts of money to farmers, grants to businesses working on projects, grants to education establishments, all sorts of things that I really can't be arsed to waste my lunch listing out and the vast majority of people can't be arsed to actually look up in the first place. The EU isn't just about handing over £55m a day and letting in half of Poland as all the hysterical right wing papers and politicians with heavily vested interests would like everyone to believe...

[edward22]

one thing also to consider is if we leave it will allow us to redesign and re agree alot of trade policys with china and the rest of the world and we will be able to redesign these policys to suit us .

so yes it may well bring in fees for exporting to europe and importing from europe .

but do we really import alot from europe . alot comes from china and countrys out side of the EU.

this makes a interesting read

the ECB has cut its rates to 0 and is lending money at a a negative % ( how that works i have no idea )

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... rio-draghi

[stefaclese]

The EU makes up 50% of our trade. Chinese investment in the UK is minimal, their economy is very shaky at best and over exposure to the Chinese market has caused massive losses for foreign investors lately. All we could really sell to them is luxury products, which they aren't buying now because they're all losing their money...

[edward22]

at the end of the day i have left this poll open so people can change their vote . for as and when they get more information to make a more informed choice .

theirs nothing to say my view wont change as and when i become more informed on the subject, i think its something to be considered very seriously and not somthing people should be voting on with out doing home work .

[E_T_V]

one thing also to consider is if we leave it will allow us to redesign and re agree alot of trade policys with china and the rest of the world and we will be able to redesign these policys to suit us .

so yes it may well bring in fees for exporting to europe and importing from europe .

but do we really import alot from europe . alot comes from china and countrys out side of the EU.

It isn't the imports from EU that worry me, it is our exports to it. Our manufacturing economy relies on exports to europe to a large degree. If the EU levied import taxes on UK goods then our manufacturing industry would be hit hard. (yes we still do have one, think of all the car makers and the steel industry for example).

Also if you were looking to invest your money, would you put it somewhere with guarenteed free trade with a huge number of countries, or outside where it is subject to greater risks. Therefore investment in the UK (in all areas) would probably become less attractive if we left the EU. Not great for our economy.

Yes we would have to renegotiate all the trade deals, but we are actually only a small country with not a lot of clout (despite what we'd like to think), therefore in my view at least we would have a weaker negotiating position than when negotiating as the whole EU. On balance I think we would come out of it worse than before.

the ECB has cut its rates to 0 and is lending money at a a negative % ( how that works i have no idea )

Its fairly simple really.
If you are a bank and have some cash, you are paid to lend it to people. So lets say the rate is -0.5%, then you are paid a £5 for lending £1000 to a customer/business.
Effectively it is a way of the central bank pumping money into the economy to stimulate activity/growth. Oh and obviously you don't have a central bank to bail you out if you get into serious trouble if you leave the EU too.

[edward22]

Its fairly simple really.
If you are a bank and have some cash, you are paid to lend it to people. So lets say the rate is -0.5%, then you are paid a £5 for lending £1000 to a customer/business.
Effectively it is a way of the central bank pumping money into the economy to stimulate activity/growth. Oh and obviously you don't have a central bank to bail you out if you get into serious trouble if you leave the EU too.

paid 5 pound by who . ...... ? isnt the EBC top of the chain.... how can they pay them selfs?

[E_T_V]

Its fairly simple really.
If you are a bank and have some cash, you are paid to lend it to people. So lets say the rate is -0.5%, then you are paid a £5 for lending £1000 to a customer/business.
Effectively it is a way of the central bank pumping money into the economy to stimulate activity/growth. Oh and obviously you don't have a central bank to bail you out if you get into serious trouble if you leave the EU too.

paid 5 pound by who . ...... ? isnt the EBC top of the chain.... how can they pay them selfs?

The ECB pays the banks who lend the money, usually not themselves.

[vinny19791]

You know the reality is it's a good idea for us to leave the EU

This is obvious because

A) Cameron and his cronies are putting out all these scare stories how terrible it will be if we leave.

B) the bbc (who are supposed to be impartial but never are) are the governments mouthpiece

C) All of the Eu member states especially France and Germany are making all sorts of threats against us.

It's one big tripe n onions pot and we are better off out

[BlueRover]

I am still undecided. I'd like to leave but that may affect the way things are done with Europe in general.
Once the vote takes place and if the vote is to leave the EU, I wonder if Brussels will start to panic and offer us a better deal to stay in.
£55m per day is an obscene amount of money for a membership fee. If the EU slap a tax on imports, so will we. The upside is that there may be more British built Jags, Land Rovers, Fords and Nissans etc. on the road than BMW, Audi,Volkswagens and the French cars. Hell, MG may even become the goto brand for cheap motoring. That I could live with !
I may just close my eyes and make a stab with the pencil.

[Nom]

I'm out.
If they mess about with export taxes, we can tax Mercedes, BMW, AUDI/VW,Bosch , siemens, Neff etc.
The German economy will fold like a cheap suit and with it the EU.

[618ireland]

Interesting poll results, bookmakers make it 1/3 stay.
I'd be surprised if ye left.

[vinny19791]

And now Cameron calls in a favour from his old friend Barack Obama.


It's laughable

"Britain will be at the back of the queue for trade deals with the usa"



bother off Barack, hollow useless nothing of a man, not like the USA would ever share its sovereignty with anyone, 60% of our laws are made by the European Union

Vote leave people

This country is fast becoming the cesspit of Europe

My town is ruined and I see many others like it.

Downhill in 10 years, massively

[Marty]

Who cares about dealing with the US most stuff nowerdays from China [emoji38] you can clearly see it's a scare tactic

[maestrovdpt16]

February 12 2002, department of defence news briefing

The Unknown

As we know,
There are known knowns,
There are things we know we know,
We also know
There are known unknowns
That is to say
We known there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The one's we don't know
We don't know.

Dondald Rumseld, Us defence secretary

[Nom]

Link to award winning Brexit Strategy from author who won a prize for the essay but has been silenced by the British Government because he is a government employee. http://www.iea.org.uk/sites/default/fil ... io_web.pdf Please share as this is a convincing and detailed instruction manual for Brexit

[Marty]

Looks like it's been taken down

[maestrovdpt16]

it's there

[E_T_V]

An interesting read (ok I didn't read all of it I confess). But what I took from it was that the potential downside is more than twice as big than the upside and their deemed most likely outcome (which is 2 years out of date!), is it'll make begger all difference.

In the business I am in there is a massive downside as well over half my orders are for EU consumption.

[james3990]

When this first came to light, I was 100% voting out.

The closer it gets to the day of voting, my decision is becoming more and more unclear.

I'm trying to read up on both sides of the argument to get a bigger picture but it's difficult.

It amazes me the amount of young people my age who are totally unaware of what's going on. My job involves going round seeing customers all day round London and the majority of people I've asked about this subject are saying out.

Immigration seems the strongest topic but for me it's more about the effects on the economy as I'm only 25 and just making out in my career with a young family.

[Drew]

Out.

For exports, I feel the pound will drop if we go out, so I'd imagine exporting will be good.
More difficult for imports. I'm happy for more UK produce to be consumed because imports have got too expensive.

Immigration / emigration! I have no problem with free movement across the EU. What I don't like is the drain on UK resources. now I know it's a government issue and not the EU giving houses / benefits / health service free to all. I would hope there will be some restrictions when we're out.

[E_T_V]

For exports, I feel the pound will drop if we go out, so I'd imagine exporting will be good.
More difficult for imports. I'm happy for more UK produce to be consumed because imports have got too expensive.

If the Pound drops then it is easier/cheaper to export - however you now have tarrifs on everything you sell to Europe which you didn't have before - therefore exports will likely be harder and more expensive - not easier. There will certainly be more paperwork and red tape too for every sale you make to the EU which didn't exist before.
Things get more complicated still as the USD/GBP rate will become increasingly important for us too.

As a very large proportion of our economy is based on financial services etc then future investment into this in Britain will be massively hindered/reduced. (Why would a company invest in things outside the EU when they could enjoy the certainty of being within it - companies like stability). In the long term that might not be a bad thing as I think we are over-reliant on this sector but in the short/medium term this is likely to hurt our economy.

[southside]

I havnt spoken to a single person yet that is voting in.

I believe the voting will be rigged anyway whatever the public decide.

[E_T_V]

It is a really interesting topic which it is healthy to have a debate about, and with any luck might help engage some of the younger members of the population into thinking a little more about politics etc rather than the general apathy that seems to reign supreme.

Immigration is always a sensitive issue but historically in the long term we have generally benefitted from it, whether that be from inside or outside europe. In a very general sense people that can get off of their arse to look for a better life, generally contribute more when they find it than someone born into it who sits on their arse and just moans about it. Yes we don't want hoards of scroungers arriving and then giving them big benefits cheques, but that is within our gift to control - not the EU's - you can't blame the EU for our governments inaction on dishing out big cheques the moment people arrive with no means of support.

In the short term any significant change (or indeed uncertainty) means our heavily service reliant economy takes a dive. In the long term things might get better, or may get worse - that is prettymuch always the view though no matter whether you are in or out. How long that short term dive is though is very uncertain. 3 years, 5 years a decade? No-one is really sure how long it'll take things to stabilise, and how deep the dive is also isn't clear. is it 0.1% or 10%?

Generally I'm on the "In" side at the moment. As my livelihood depends on exports to europe which will become far harder (more complicated, more red tape) and more expensive (trade barriers/agreements) if we exit. If we exit, the cost to the company I work for is likely to be millions which will almost certainly mean job losses. And this will be similar for most companies that export goods to EU markets.

[southside]

Being in or out of the EU has nothing to do with people sitting on their arse scrounging, that's the governments fault. If they didn't pay so much out in benefits and make it pointless working then people would get off their donkey boy and get a job. The problem is ,without stereotyping, most of the scrounges are unskilled and all of out unskilled jobs have been taken by cheap labour from Eastern Europe.

It's a vicious circle.

[skintoss]

I think I'm voting out.

I expect a difficult few years while we figure out what the hell to do but I think we as a country would be stronger for it in the long run.

Also I doubt we would ever get another chance to leave but if we leave I suspect we could re-join (not straight forward but possible)

[Marty]

The vote will end up being stay in the government are corrupt and if that's what they want that will happen I don't trust any of them

[maestrovdpt16]

This country would not operate without open borders. Look back in history, every time foreign labour helped rebuild this country. Currently we would hardly have a farming or food industry without eastern european labour.

The Tory party seem determined to turn us all into racist scumbags when the workers from the eu are either creating their own businesses or doing the jobs we deem as not good enough for us anymore.

As far as I have seem some polls are 50 50 but others do put the remain camp well ahead.

33% of our exports go abroad so if we all think we can survive without a third of our income, or we should literally gamble with that 3rd then feel free to vote out.

For me I'll be listening to the 80% of the economic industry telling us yesterday that we will be better off in Europe. In a time where many people are still suffering the effects of Tory austerity on anything to do with the poor I can't in all consciousness vote out. With a 3rd of our export income at stake I think we all know where the new cuts would fall.

If you'd like to risk the rich getting mysteriously richer, and the poor getting even poorer, and if you don't think the already increasing suicide rate isn't high enough...

[dave-mg]

The vote will end up being stay in the government are corrupt and if that's what they want that will happen I don't trust any of them

I agree totally I don't believe we live in a democracy just the lie and illusion of one.
I remember when I was a kid even a sniff of an affair would mean the end of there career, but now they can have there illegal immigrant gay lover working as there secretary. plus the fact our current prime minister is a tax dodger.
our last prime minister took this country into an illegal war and he is a war criminal. just look at how many hundreds of thousands of people bush and blair are responsible for killing. there actions destabilised the middle east and they are responsible for isis.
I genuinely believe we need our political system completely overhauled, they are a law unto themselves with no comebacks and just do whatever the highest bidder pay's them to do.(or the illuminate if you believe that pish lol)